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	<title>Comments on: St. Tikhon&#8217;s Vision, 1905</title>
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	<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/10/21/st-tikhons-vision-1905/</link>
	<description>The Society for Orthodox Christian History in the Americas</description>
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		<title>By: OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Hanna v. Malick: the Russy-Antacky schism in the Michigan Supreme Court</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/10/21/st-tikhons-vision-1905/comment-page-1/#comment-1464</link>
		<dc:creator>OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Hanna v. Malick: the Russy-Antacky schism in the Michigan Supreme Court</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 17:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1092#comment-1464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in America. The Russians themselves clearly understood Raphael to be one of theirs, and in his 1905 plan for Orthodoxy in America, St. Tikhon includes the Syrian bishop as a crucial part &#8212; while at the same time recognizing [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in America. The Russians themselves clearly understood Raphael to be one of theirs, and in his 1905 plan for Orthodoxy in America, St. Tikhon includes the Syrian bishop as a crucial part &#8212; while at the same time recognizing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Isa Almisry</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/10/21/st-tikhons-vision-1905/comment-page-1/#comment-971</link>
		<dc:creator>Isa Almisry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1092#comment-971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was more suprised that St. Petersburg and New York seemed to be dealing with Constantinople, when they were aware of the Greek parishes dealing with the Synod in Athens, in particular given the ties of the Imperial and Royal Families. That, however, might be the issue, given the fallout over the Evangelika Controversy.

I&#039;m wondering if the Greek Government census of Greeks abroad had anything to do with the sudden interest of the Phanar in the &quot;diaspoa.&quot;  It seems by the turn of the century the Greek Kingdom was increasingly looking at the Greeks abroad as a resource against the larger Ottoman Empire, even as it was loosing its subjects to the diaspora (the figures show that 74.33 % of the Greek immigrants in the US in 1908 came since 1905, with a nearly 4 to 1 ratio from Greece versus the Ottoman Empire).  The Holy Trinity website has a lot on the Greeks of San Francisco going back home to fight in the 1897 conflicte over Crete (interestingly enough, the home of both Venizelos and Meletios, and under Prince George, who first motivated the Greeks of NYC to organize into a parish when he came through with the Russian consul, after saving the Russian Czarovitch in Japan, and also what led to the Evangelika riots).  Among  them is the April 1, 1897 newspaper clipping:

&quot;High mass will be celebrated next Wednesday morning in the Orthodox Greek Catholic Church on Powell street [i.e. the Archdiocesan Cathedral] for the repose of the souls of the Cretan insurgents killed in the recent engagements. On the same occasion prayer will be offered for the success of the Greek cause.

Archbishop Nicholas will officiate, and the Greek Archimandrite Theoclitos [in Russian Archdiocese serving at the Galveston parish] will preach a sermon in the Greek language. Next Wednesday will be March 25, in the Greek calendar, and is the anniversary of the day on which the Greek raised the banner of independence from the Turks.

There may be some significance in the fact that the Czar of Russia is the head of the Greek church, and that all the bishops and archbishops of that church are appointed by him. Hence, if they offer up prayers for the Greek cause it may be inferred that the Czar must have a friendly feeling for the Greeks in their present struggle against the unspeakable Turk.&quot;
http://www.holy-trinity.org/

The CoG had more parishes at the time (1906), but it was close, about 20 versus 15.  It would seem, however, that the Kingdom&#039;s start in organizing Greek outside its borders (as Meletios, for instance, was doing in Cyprus at the time), might give us the context of what was going on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was more suprised that St. Petersburg and New York seemed to be dealing with Constantinople, when they were aware of the Greek parishes dealing with the Synod in Athens, in particular given the ties of the Imperial and Royal Families. That, however, might be the issue, given the fallout over the Evangelika Controversy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering if the Greek Government census of Greeks abroad had anything to do with the sudden interest of the Phanar in the &#8220;diaspoa.&#8221;  It seems by the turn of the century the Greek Kingdom was increasingly looking at the Greeks abroad as a resource against the larger Ottoman Empire, even as it was loosing its subjects to the diaspora (the figures show that 74.33 % of the Greek immigrants in the US in 1908 came since 1905, with a nearly 4 to 1 ratio from Greece versus the Ottoman Empire).  The Holy Trinity website has a lot on the Greeks of San Francisco going back home to fight in the 1897 conflicte over Crete (interestingly enough, the home of both Venizelos and Meletios, and under Prince George, who first motivated the Greeks of NYC to organize into a parish when he came through with the Russian consul, after saving the Russian Czarovitch in Japan, and also what led to the Evangelika riots).  Among  them is the April 1, 1897 newspaper clipping:</p>
<p>&#8220;High mass will be celebrated next Wednesday morning in the Orthodox Greek Catholic Church on Powell street [i.e. the Archdiocesan Cathedral] for the repose of the souls of the Cretan insurgents killed in the recent engagements. On the same occasion prayer will be offered for the success of the Greek cause.</p>
<p>Archbishop Nicholas will officiate, and the Greek Archimandrite Theoclitos [in Russian Archdiocese serving at the Galveston parish] will preach a sermon in the Greek language. Next Wednesday will be March 25, in the Greek calendar, and is the anniversary of the day on which the Greek raised the banner of independence from the Turks.</p>
<p>There may be some significance in the fact that the Czar of Russia is the head of the Greek church, and that all the bishops and archbishops of that church are appointed by him. Hence, if they offer up prayers for the Greek cause it may be inferred that the Czar must have a friendly feeling for the Greeks in their present struggle against the unspeakable Turk.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.holy-trinity.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.holy-trinity.org/</a></p>
<p>The CoG had more parishes at the time (1906), but it was close, about 20 versus 15.  It would seem, however, that the Kingdom&#8217;s start in organizing Greek outside its borders (as Meletios, for instance, was doing in Cyprus at the time), might give us the context of what was going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/10/21/st-tikhons-vision-1905/comment-page-1/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1092#comment-968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, that&#039;s no surprise. Despite the EP&#039;s (retroactive) claim to jurisdiction before 1908, in reality more early Greek parishes in America were under the Church of Greece than the EP. This makes sense when you consider that the majority of Greek immigrants in that period came from Greece proper, and not from Turkey. They naturally looked to their own Mother Church, rather than to Turkish-oppressed Constantinople.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s no surprise. Despite the EP&#8217;s (retroactive) claim to jurisdiction before 1908, in reality more early Greek parishes in America were under the Church of Greece than the EP. This makes sense when you consider that the majority of Greek immigrants in that period came from Greece proper, and not from Turkey. They naturally looked to their own Mother Church, rather than to Turkish-oppressed Constantinople.</p>
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		<title>By: Isa Almisry</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/10/21/st-tikhons-vision-1905/comment-page-1/#comment-966</link>
		<dc:creator>Isa Almisry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1092#comment-966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This just caught my eye:

&quot;The Greeks also desire to have their own bishop and are trying to settle the matter with the Synod of Athens.&quot;

This is interesting, coming as it does not only before the Tomos of 1908, but before the 1907 conference on the issue of the &quot;diaspora.&quot;  It is also interesting that while the precious little we have about the relationships between the Russian Church and the Greek Church all point to Constantinople (which would fit with the version enshrined in the 1908 Tomos and present theory), the Greeks here are contacting instead the Church of Greece.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This just caught my eye:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Greeks also desire to have their own bishop and are trying to settle the matter with the Synod of Athens.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is interesting, coming as it does not only before the Tomos of 1908, but before the 1907 conference on the issue of the &#8220;diaspora.&#8221;  It is also interesting that while the precious little we have about the relationships between the Russian Church and the Greek Church all point to Constantinople (which would fit with the version enshrined in the 1908 Tomos and present theory), the Greeks here are contacting instead the Church of Greece.</p>
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