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	<title>Comments on: Organs in Greek Orthodox churches</title>
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	<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/</link>
	<description>The Society for Orthodox Christian History in the Americas</description>
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		<title>By: OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Unsolved mysteries of American Orthodoxy</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-1706</link>
		<dc:creator>OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Unsolved mysteries of American Orthodoxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-1706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of the early life of that parish. The hints that we do have are tantalizing. For instance, Holy Trinity used an organ decades before any other American Orthodox church is known to have added one. But we don&#8217;t [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the early life of that parish. The hints that we do have are tantalizing. For instance, Holy Trinity used an organ decades before any other American Orthodox church is known to have added one. But we don&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Andrew S. Damick</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Andrew S. Damick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 12:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ggg (Mr.?  Miss?),

The music that the Greek immigration brought with them was not mainly authentic Byzantine chant.  During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the churches in Greece were undergoing a flirtation with harmonized music (along with Western-style icon painting), a sharp departure from a fairly unbroken tradition of many centuries.  I&#039;m not sure if this included the use of organs or not.

The flirtation in Greece eventually ended with a return to authentic forms.  But its legacy remains here in America, where the majority of Greek churches are still using harmonized choral pieces during the Divine Liturgy.  There is an ongoing movement in American Greek parishes to return to traditional Orthodox music, but it hasn&#039;t gotten very far yet.

I also have my doubts about any motivations based on trying to be more appealing to the Western ear&#8212;American Orthodoxy of the early immigrations was mostly not interested in making any appeals to Westerners, musical or otherwise.

I think we&#039;ll need some sort of period testimony to figure out the &quot;why&quot; on organs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ggg (Mr.?  Miss?),</p>
<p>The music that the Greek immigration brought with them was not mainly authentic Byzantine chant.  During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the churches in Greece were undergoing a flirtation with harmonized music (along with Western-style icon painting), a sharp departure from a fairly unbroken tradition of many centuries.  I&#8217;m not sure if this included the use of organs or not.</p>
<p>The flirtation in Greece eventually ended with a return to authentic forms.  But its legacy remains here in America, where the majority of Greek churches are still using harmonized choral pieces during the Divine Liturgy.  There is an ongoing movement in American Greek parishes to return to traditional Orthodox music, but it hasn&#8217;t gotten very far yet.</p>
<p>I also have my doubts about any motivations based on trying to be more appealing to the Western ear&mdash;American Orthodoxy of the early immigrations was mostly not interested in making any appeals to Westerners, musical or otherwise.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ll need some sort of period testimony to figure out the &#8220;why&#8221; on organs.</p>
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		<title>By: ggg</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>ggg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 03:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It might be interesting to wonder not only why early Greek parishes added organs, but why Slavic/Russian parishes in America did not.  Is there any history of any early Slavic/Russian Orthodox parish in America adding an organ?

My initial thought is that the Slavic parishes would be opposed to organs because it would sound awful against the beauty of the 4-part Orthodox a cappella singing.  This western-style singing is definitely appreciated by non-Orthodox westerners -- you don&#039;t need an organ to make it better, and yes, it would sound worse with an organ.  I also imagine that most of the Russian bishops in America would be opposed to it.

By contrast, Greek-style byzantine chant takes some training to appreciate, and not all appreciate its beauty and tonality (even a lot of Orthodox don&#039;t like it -- possibly because it clashes with our western concepts of what is beautiful and what is not?).  Maybe adding organs in Greek/byzantine churches was a way to make this type of worship more appealing to the western ear, and more &quot;american&quot;?  Also, adding organs and choir singing would lend itself more to congregational participation whereas traditional byzantine chant does not.

I&#039;d be curious to know if any Russian/Slavic Orthodox parish in America has ever added an organ, though.... I&#039;ve never heard of one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be interesting to wonder not only why early Greek parishes added organs, but why Slavic/Russian parishes in America did not.  Is there any history of any early Slavic/Russian Orthodox parish in America adding an organ?</p>
<p>My initial thought is that the Slavic parishes would be opposed to organs because it would sound awful against the beauty of the 4-part Orthodox a cappella singing.  This western-style singing is definitely appreciated by non-Orthodox westerners &#8212; you don&#8217;t need an organ to make it better, and yes, it would sound worse with an organ.  I also imagine that most of the Russian bishops in America would be opposed to it.</p>
<p>By contrast, Greek-style byzantine chant takes some training to appreciate, and not all appreciate its beauty and tonality (even a lot of Orthodox don&#8217;t like it &#8212; possibly because it clashes with our western concepts of what is beautiful and what is not?).  Maybe adding organs in Greek/byzantine churches was a way to make this type of worship more appealing to the western ear, and more &#8220;american&#8221;?  Also, adding organs and choir singing would lend itself more to congregational participation whereas traditional byzantine chant does not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be curious to know if any Russian/Slavic Orthodox parish in America has ever added an organ, though&#8230;. I&#8217;ve never heard of one.</p>
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		<title>By: David Mastroberte</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>David Mastroberte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Αρμονικη Λειτουργικη Υμνωδια&quot; is a choral hymnal (original copywrite 1944; the edition I have is from 1960), with music for the Divine Liturgy, feasts, etc.  It is Byzantine-based (i.e. the soprano line usually contains a melody that is Byzantine), but in western notation, harmonized and designed for use with an organ.

Aside from music, the book contains some explanatory material, either technical (how to organize a choir) or historical (the above &quot;history&quot; of organs).  This material is in Greek and English, the Greek text being written by Anastasiou (who is listed as the protopsaltis of the Greek Archdiocese) and the English translations by Rev. Anastasios C. Bandy. 

In the front and back of the book, there are  letters from various hierarchs, including two from Athenagoras--one as archbishop and one as patriarch.  These letters are in Greek and no translation is given, so I don&#039;t know if they contain any clues to the organ on Corfu.

Anastasiou also notes in his introduction:

&quot;Upon my arrival in this hospitable country of United States of America in August of 1920, God deemed me worthy to serve progressive Greek Communities thirsty for musical regeneration and ecclesiastical greatness and order and in which I was accorded brotherly hospitality and support, I proceeded to the organization, teaching, and formation of various many-voiced ecclesiastical choirs from the stems of our new Greek-American generation, which I found most eager for cooperation, and I taught for the past 10 years nearly all of the contents of this work of music for trial and elaboration with perseverance and patience up to application and success, for distribution, preservation, and perpetuation of the institution of choirs, conformably also with the ecclesiastical organ or harmonium, though this Greek Byzantine music; and in order that we might preserve unbroken in the bosom of our Greek Orthodoxy all its music-loving and religious children.&quot;

Oddly, the Greek text of the introduction is dated September 1, 1943 and the English translation is dated September 1, 1955.

Anastasiou&#039;s book was well distributed around the US, and appears to have gone through several reprints, so finding a copy shouldn&#039;t be too hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Αρμονικη Λειτουργικη Υμνωδια&#8221; is a choral hymnal (original copywrite 1944; the edition I have is from 1960), with music for the Divine Liturgy, feasts, etc.  It is Byzantine-based (i.e. the soprano line usually contains a melody that is Byzantine), but in western notation, harmonized and designed for use with an organ.</p>
<p>Aside from music, the book contains some explanatory material, either technical (how to organize a choir) or historical (the above &#8220;history&#8221; of organs).  This material is in Greek and English, the Greek text being written by Anastasiou (who is listed as the protopsaltis of the Greek Archdiocese) and the English translations by Rev. Anastasios C. Bandy. </p>
<p>In the front and back of the book, there are  letters from various hierarchs, including two from Athenagoras&#8211;one as archbishop and one as patriarch.  These letters are in Greek and no translation is given, so I don&#8217;t know if they contain any clues to the organ on Corfu.</p>
<p>Anastasiou also notes in his introduction:</p>
<p>&#8220;Upon my arrival in this hospitable country of United States of America in August of 1920, God deemed me worthy to serve progressive Greek Communities thirsty for musical regeneration and ecclesiastical greatness and order and in which I was accorded brotherly hospitality and support, I proceeded to the organization, teaching, and formation of various many-voiced ecclesiastical choirs from the stems of our new Greek-American generation, which I found most eager for cooperation, and I taught for the past 10 years nearly all of the contents of this work of music for trial and elaboration with perseverance and patience up to application and success, for distribution, preservation, and perpetuation of the institution of choirs, conformably also with the ecclesiastical organ or harmonium, though this Greek Byzantine music; and in order that we might preserve unbroken in the bosom of our Greek Orthodoxy all its music-loving and religious children.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oddly, the Greek text of the introduction is dated September 1, 1943 and the English translation is dated September 1, 1955.</p>
<p>Anastasiou&#8217;s book was well distributed around the US, and appears to have gone through several reprints, so finding a copy shouldn&#8217;t be too hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-489</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Richard, I&#039;ve heard similar things about churches in Syria. Were these seats that you saw folding chairs, or nicer, more permanent-looking seats? I take it they weren&#039;t the stadia/leaners that monasteries often have.

I&#039;d love to know when seats started being used in Greece and Syria. And why.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, I&#8217;ve heard similar things about churches in Syria. Were these seats that you saw folding chairs, or nicer, more permanent-looking seats? I take it they weren&#8217;t the stadia/leaners that monasteries often have.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to know when seats started being used in Greece and Syria. And why.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

Thanks for posting this! Do you know when this was published, and whether it is available in English? (I take it that this is an autobiography -- correct?)

Also, is there any indication that Anastasiou influenced Abp Athenagoras&#039; decision to introduce an organ on Corfu in the 1920s?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Thanks for posting this! Do you know when this was published, and whether it is available in English? (I take it that this is an autobiography &#8212; correct?)</p>
<p>Also, is there any indication that Anastasiou influenced Abp Athenagoras&#8217; decision to introduce an organ on Corfu in the 1920s?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Barrett</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the matter of seating, I will say that I saw rows of chairs at every church I was inside of when I was in Greece this summer. I asked somebody about it, and I was told that open floors were a monastic thing, and that parish churches usually had seating.

Make of that what you will.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the matter of seating, I will say that I saw rows of chairs at every church I was inside of when I was in Greece this summer. I asked somebody about it, and I was told that open floors were a monastic thing, and that parish churches usually had seating.</p>
<p>Make of that what you will.</p>
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		<title>By: David Mastroberte</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2009/12/23/organs-in-greek-orthodox-churches/comment-page-1/#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>David Mastroberte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=1701#comment-485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In George Anastasiou’s “Αρμονικη Λειτουργικη Υμνωδια” he claims to be the originator of organs in Greek Orthodox churches.  In a paragraph appropriately titled “Organ Introducer” he says:

“I am convinced that I first introduced the organ in our Churches in America with the musical cooperation of ever-memorable artist and musical [sic] Spyridon Saphrides upon my arrival in America and my appointment as precentor-choir leader of the Greek Church of St. Sophia in Washington at the time of the progress and reformatory presidency of Mr. T. H. Theotokatos, lawyer and at that time teacher of this community in the year 1921.  Later I introduced it also in New York and in other places by special musical-historic lectures, descriptions in our Greek press, and by special teaching in the choirs of our communities, which I formed, and lately in the beloved Greek city of Florida, Tarpon Springs, where there is played today, in that very beautiful cathedral church of America (as it is called today by all the Greeks and Americans by reason of the Pan-American celebration of Theophany services every year) an organ of great value electrically, microphonically, megaphonically, and with chimes, on the great singing tower, the bell tower of about 100 feet in height of this Greek Church of St. Nicholas in Florida, called the Greek singing Tower of America.
And thus, and in time, the organ of Greek invention became the valuable leader and coadjutor of our choirs and in America for the elevation of the Divine Worship and for our reunion through our choirs (which, I am convinced, I first introduced in America), with the ancient Greek Byzantine greatness of our church.”
     In earlier paragraphs, Anastasiou claims that the organ was invented by Greeks at Alexandria, was used in the “Hebrew church” and was even employed by such great saints as Athanasius and Basil the Great.  He also mentions its use in the narthex of Hagia Sophia, and its subsequent introduction into the West via Byzantium.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In George Anastasiou’s “Αρμονικη Λειτουργικη Υμνωδια” he claims to be the originator of organs in Greek Orthodox churches.  In a paragraph appropriately titled “Organ Introducer” he says:</p>
<p>“I am convinced that I first introduced the organ in our Churches in America with the musical cooperation of ever-memorable artist and musical [sic] Spyridon Saphrides upon my arrival in America and my appointment as precentor-choir leader of the Greek Church of St. Sophia in Washington at the time of the progress and reformatory presidency of Mr. T. H. Theotokatos, lawyer and at that time teacher of this community in the year 1921.  Later I introduced it also in New York and in other places by special musical-historic lectures, descriptions in our Greek press, and by special teaching in the choirs of our communities, which I formed, and lately in the beloved Greek city of Florida, Tarpon Springs, where there is played today, in that very beautiful cathedral church of America (as it is called today by all the Greeks and Americans by reason of the Pan-American celebration of Theophany services every year) an organ of great value electrically, microphonically, megaphonically, and with chimes, on the great singing tower, the bell tower of about 100 feet in height of this Greek Church of St. Nicholas in Florida, called the Greek singing Tower of America.<br />
And thus, and in time, the organ of Greek invention became the valuable leader and coadjutor of our choirs and in America for the elevation of the Divine Worship and for our reunion through our choirs (which, I am convinced, I first introduced in America), with the ancient Greek Byzantine greatness of our church.”<br />
     In earlier paragraphs, Anastasiou claims that the organ was invented by Greeks at Alexandria, was used in the “Hebrew church” and was even employed by such great saints as Athanasius and Basil the Great.  He also mentions its use in the narthex of Hagia Sophia, and its subsequent introduction into the West via Byzantium.</p>
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