Comments on: Scandal and murder: the story of Fr. Parthenios Kolonis

By: orrologion

orrologion — Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:01:10 +0000

The thing critics are also missing is that Matthew is simply making available a number of primary documents, noting holes and connections in the available reports, providing hypotheses that makes sense of the available material and that offer further avenues of inquiry.

That is, he isn’t claiming to have told the full, true story. He’s simply providing as much of the story as he can at this time.

So, a more constructive line of ‘criticism’ would have been asking, “Matthew, is there additional information available in contemporary Greek language sources in America? Are there any ecclesiastical records extant since the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America (GOA) was incorporated in 1921 and officially recognized by the State of New York in 1922, and Kolonis only died in 1933 – thus, the GOA would have ‘missed’ allegations against him in Milwaukee, Haverhill, and Wheeling, etc.

By: Isa Almisry

Isa Almisry — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 19:55:45 +0000

Oh, I forgot to mention that doing the history of Orthodoxy in North America also requires knowledge of Pomo Kashaya, an Amerindian language spoken north of San Francisco, which at its height, had at most 10,000 speakers (they are now 45). Valuable material about the conversion of the Amerindians around Fort Ross was preserved by those who stayed and were not evaculated to Stika when the Russians sold Fort Ross.

By: Isa Almisry

Isa Almisry — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 19:48:44 +0000

“Reg has made a good point for discussion: do historians have to know languages for research in primary sources or not?”

Depends on what he is doing. In the case at bar, Mr. Namee does know the language for research in the primary sources: English.

The criminal investigations would be recroded in English. The Immigraton investigation would be recorded in English. The hospital record would be in English. The murder investigation would be recorded in English. The coroner’s report would be in English. And all these, along with the general press reports, are primary sources.

Would the Greek Press turn up more? I’m sure they would, but they would be no more unbiased than the English press (I can read Greek, so I know that for a fact). Would there be Ecclesiastical records in Greek? Perhaps: would they be accessible?

Doing the history of Orhtodoxy in North America requires knowledge of Slavonic, Russian, Spanish, Ukrainian, Risyn, Slovak, Greek, Arabic, Armenian, Serbian, Albanian, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Ottoman Turkish, Latin, Syriac/Assyrian, Malayam, Portuguese, perhaps Hinidi and Tamil, Amaharic along with Aleut, Kolosh, Tlingit, etc. All that is beyond the abilities of most. That’s why history is a collaborative effort. That’s why you publush what you can, so those competent in other areas can add to it and contribute to the collaborative effort.

By: Helen

Helen — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 16:17:59 +0000

Has Dr. Samonides written a book on Greek-Americans? If so you should have cited his book. Reg has made a good point for discussion: do historians have to know languages for research in primary sources or not? That is something that needs to be discussed.
As for Matthew’s article what we can discuss about methodology since it has been mentioned: is the need to consult a good secondary source to provide the context of the story. How about a book on the history of Greek-Americans? For sure, the churches will be important chapters in any book on Greek-Americans. Research is not just checking the internet to find an articel or two in the popular press as the only basis for a story or article.

By: Matthew Namee

Matthew Namee — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:13:15 +0000

Also, I contacted one of the preeminent Greek historians in America, Dr. Samonides. He actually lives in Ohio (where Kolonis died) and has done extensive archival research on Greek history in the state.

By: Matthew Namee

Matthew Namee — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:09:03 +0000

So if I can’t read Greek, I’m precluded from writing about Greek Orthodox history in America?

In this article, I didn’t rely all that much on secular newspapers. I did use them for reports on Kolonis’ death, but that’s it. Mostly, I depended on Canaday’s research, and she relied heavily on US government reports. Is there more to be found? I’m sure there is. But just because there might be other good sources doesn’t mean I cannot publish what I’ve found on a given subject. And just because I can’t read Greek, or Ukrainian, or Russian, or Arabic, or whatever, doesn’t mean I can’t write about the history of those Orthodox groups in America.

Look, unlike the critics of my article on Bp Joseph Zuk, you haven’t even pointed at other specific sources. You’ve merely speculated that such sources exist. I’d love to learn about them, and I’m always willing to admit when I’m wrong. But you, and people like you, seem to have a distorted understanding of what a historian does. Historians don’t wait until they know every single thing that one can know before they assert something. Most good historians make hypotheses which are always subject to change if new information comes to light.

If you don’t like the way I write about history, you’re welcome to stop reading. But I’m not going to quit writing simply because I am not all-knowing.

By: Reg

Reg — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:35:58 +0000

Here we go again! Matthew, I find the fact that you did not consult any Greek-American newspapers about this subject a flaw in your research methodology. Let’s face it doing Orthodox history in America is part of ethnic studies. By 1933 the Greeks were already established in America and had their own newspapers, church organizations and clubs.
So presently the facts only from English language newspers is not going to cut it.
Please try to present a balanced picture. We know that the English language newspapers did not always get everything right and there was in some papers a spirit of Anglo-American nativism, anti-immigration and of couse sensationalism.

I am not of Greek heritage and belong to the OCA so I have no axe to grind just a point of faulty methodology. I am sure that books have been written on the Greeks in America and if you consult one or two you will find the names of Greek language newspapers published in America in 1933 and can go from there. As for the future if you write about a Serbian Orthodox or a Romanian Orthodox please also check their sources in Romanian and Serbian to present a balanced picture.