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	<title>Comments on: The first New Calendar Christmas for the Antiochians in America</title>
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	<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/</link>
	<description>The Society for Orthodox Christian History in the Americas</description>
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		<title>By: Aram Sarkisian</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1794</link>
		<dc:creator>Aram Sarkisian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 04:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Somewhere around here I have a copy of some of the correspondence sent to priests/parishes from the Metropolia Chancery concerning the New Calendar, and it&#039;s definitely from 1967.  I&#039;ll see if I can get it scanned and posted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhere around here I have a copy of some of the correspondence sent to priests/parishes from the Metropolia Chancery concerning the New Calendar, and it&#8217;s definitely from 1967.  I&#8217;ll see if I can get it scanned and posted.</p>
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		<title>By: OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Christmas, the New Calendar, and the Russian Church in 1923</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1790</link>
		<dc:creator>OrthodoxHistory.org » Blog Archive &#187; Christmas, the New Calendar, and the Russian Church in 1923</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] reading Matthew Namee&#8217;s recent post on the celebration of Christmas according to the New Calendar in Orthodox parishes and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reading Matthew Namee&#8217;s recent post on the celebration of Christmas according to the New Calendar in Orthodox parishes and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1786</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William, I&#039;ve updated the article (above) with your find about the 1967 Sobor. Thanks for that, and for the stories about the parishes under Metropolitan Ireney.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, I&#8217;ve updated the article (above) with your find about the 1967 Sobor. Thanks for that, and for the stories about the parishes under Metropolitan Ireney.</p>
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		<title>By: William Kosar</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1784</link>
		<dc:creator>William Kosar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After a little research, it was at the Thirteenth Sobor of November 14-16, 1967 that the decision was made permitting parishes, upon approval of their diocesan bishop, to use the new calendar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After a little research, it was at the Thirteenth Sobor of November 14-16, 1967 that the decision was made permitting parishes, upon approval of their diocesan bishop, to use the new calendar.</p>
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		<title>By: William Kosar</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1781</link>
		<dc:creator>William Kosar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the question of coexistence, we have a laboratory experience on-going. At St. Nicholas Cathedral in Washington two services, and in effect two communities, have been ongoing for more than ten years - one English and the other Slavonic, the English under the new calendar and the Slavonic under the old! This even during the time of Metr. Herman!! No further comment!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the question of coexistence, we have a laboratory experience on-going. At St. Nicholas Cathedral in Washington two services, and in effect two communities, have been ongoing for more than ten years &#8211; one English and the other Slavonic, the English under the new calendar and the Slavonic under the old! This even during the time of Metr. Herman!! No further comment!!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1780</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your comment, Liz. These are important points, and I didn&#039;t mean to marginalize the issue. I just don&#039;t see a magic-bullet sort of solution: everyone isn&#039;t going to return to the OC, but (as you suggest) it&#039;s unfair and wrong to expect the OC folks to just capitulate to the NC crowd. Thus, there has to be a compromise -- a coexistence of two calendars in a single diocese. You make great points about the problem with such an arrangement, but what other option exists?

One possibility to at least make things slightly better, I suppose, might be for each diocese in a hypothetical unified American Orthodox Church to have one OC hierarch and one NC hierarch. So I guess you&#039;d still have overlapping jurisdictions, but it would be uniform and limited -- two bishops per diocese. That might at least mitigate the problem. But I really don&#039;t know what the right answer is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment, Liz. These are important points, and I didn&#8217;t mean to marginalize the issue. I just don&#8217;t see a magic-bullet sort of solution: everyone isn&#8217;t going to return to the OC, but (as you suggest) it&#8217;s unfair and wrong to expect the OC folks to just capitulate to the NC crowd. Thus, there has to be a compromise &#8212; a coexistence of two calendars in a single diocese. You make great points about the problem with such an arrangement, but what other option exists?</p>
<p>One possibility to at least make things slightly better, I suppose, might be for each diocese in a hypothetical unified American Orthodox Church to have one OC hierarch and one NC hierarch. So I guess you&#8217;d still have overlapping jurisdictions, but it would be uniform and limited &#8212; two bishops per diocese. That might at least mitigate the problem. But I really don&#8217;t know what the right answer is.</p>
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		<title>By: William Kosar</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1779</link>
		<dc:creator>William Kosar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding the 1982 date for the new calendar, as I remember the twelfth  American Sobor approved the use of the new calendar with provisos that a majority of the parish asks for it and the diocesan bishop approves. 

In the late 1960s I was a member of the St. Andrew mission in Suffolk County when we voted some 90 percent to use the new calendar but Metr. Ireney would not approve it - he did not reject it either - until we had a meeting with him at the 2nd Street cathedral!

At the time Father John Nehrebecki, whose parish in Paramus was well organized, had submitted their request immediately after the Sobor and the Metropolitan approved it immediately. Perhaps , for the rest of us, he felt taken by surprise as many of the &quot;English&quot; parishes in the New York City area that wanted to use the new calendar all had a hard time getting approval, such that representatives of these parishes held a number of meetings trying to figure a way to get Metr. Ireney&#039;s approval.

I notice that the Orthodoxwiki article (http://orthodoxwiki.org/All-American_Sobor) on the All-American Sobors does not mention the authorization scheme to use the new calendar. The 1982 reference may be to the act by Bishop Herman to command the use of the new calendar in his diocese in the early 1980s that caused the defection and split of a number of parishes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the 1982 date for the new calendar, as I remember the twelfth  American Sobor approved the use of the new calendar with provisos that a majority of the parish asks for it and the diocesan bishop approves. </p>
<p>In the late 1960s I was a member of the St. Andrew mission in Suffolk County when we voted some 90 percent to use the new calendar but Metr. Ireney would not approve it &#8211; he did not reject it either &#8211; until we had a meeting with him at the 2nd Street cathedral!</p>
<p>At the time Father John Nehrebecki, whose parish in Paramus was well organized, had submitted their request immediately after the Sobor and the Metropolitan approved it immediately. Perhaps , for the rest of us, he felt taken by surprise as many of the &#8220;English&#8221; parishes in the New York City area that wanted to use the new calendar all had a hard time getting approval, such that representatives of these parishes held a number of meetings trying to figure a way to get Metr. Ireney&#8217;s approval.</p>
<p>I notice that the Orthodoxwiki article (<a href="http://orthodoxwiki.org/All-American_Sobor" rel="nofollow">http://orthodoxwiki.org/All-American_Sobor</a>) on the All-American Sobors does not mention the authorization scheme to use the new calendar. The 1982 reference may be to the act by Bishop Herman to command the use of the new calendar in his diocese in the early 1980s that caused the defection and split of a number of parishes.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz McAtee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1778</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz McAtee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 18:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I totally disagree with Matthew and Isa, but perhaps they have not felt the effects personally. The calendar is a huge issue for unity in America if you actually care about real unity of worship. How can a parish be in real communion with the parish on the other side of town if while one is fasting the other is feasting? It causes a problem if we want to have any kind of social or liturgical interaction in the summer or winter. Furthermore, if real unity is achieved and there is only one bishop per metropolitan area, how is that bishop supposed to be in real liturgical communion with all of his parishes? This is already a problem in the OCA. What I mean is, even if it is not a time when feasting/fasting overlap, there is still the issue of many important feast and saint days that are either repeated or, more likely, missed by traveling between parishes if your life&#039;s work requires you to travel. If the calendar issue isn&#039;t addressed it will result in either the Old Calendar churches being neglected/isolated from rest of Orthodoxy or in parishioners compromising their piety. Both of these are already plaguing our churches in areas where both calendars are present.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally disagree with Matthew and Isa, but perhaps they have not felt the effects personally. The calendar is a huge issue for unity in America if you actually care about real unity of worship. How can a parish be in real communion with the parish on the other side of town if while one is fasting the other is feasting? It causes a problem if we want to have any kind of social or liturgical interaction in the summer or winter. Furthermore, if real unity is achieved and there is only one bishop per metropolitan area, how is that bishop supposed to be in real liturgical communion with all of his parishes? This is already a problem in the OCA. What I mean is, even if it is not a time when feasting/fasting overlap, there is still the issue of many important feast and saint days that are either repeated or, more likely, missed by traveling between parishes if your life&#8217;s work requires you to travel. If the calendar issue isn&#8217;t addressed it will result in either the Old Calendar churches being neglected/isolated from rest of Orthodoxy or in parishioners compromising their piety. Both of these are already plaguing our churches in areas where both calendars are present.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1776</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Isa. If our Assembly of Bishops is successful here in America, I think the most likely scenario would be that parishes would have the option. Even if the bishops agreed on the New Calendar, it would still be a bad idea to force it on individual communities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Isa. If our Assembly of Bishops is successful here in America, I think the most likely scenario would be that parishes would have the option. Even if the bishops agreed on the New Calendar, it would still be a bad idea to force it on individual communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Isa Almisry</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1775</link>
		<dc:creator>Isa Almisry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Depends:if it is forced on everyone, as happened in Greece, Romania, etc...it can be a complete disaster, and set unity back.  If both are allowed, as happened (for the most part) in the OCA, where most parishes were left to decide, it can become a non-issue.  It won&#039;t go away as an issue until Orthodoxy as a whole decides on it (and there are indications that Moscow, the one that really counts, is not dogmatically opposed to the Revised Julian calendar).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends:if it is forced on everyone, as happened in Greece, Romania, etc&#8230;it can be a complete disaster, and set unity back.  If both are allowed, as happened (for the most part) in the OCA, where most parishes were left to decide, it can become a non-issue.  It won&#8217;t go away as an issue until Orthodoxy as a whole decides on it (and there are indications that Moscow, the one that really counts, is not dogmatically opposed to the Revised Julian calendar).</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Dude</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/12/22/the-first-new-calendar-christmas-for-the-antiochians-in-america/comment-page-1/#comment-1773</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4954#comment-1773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[how big of an issue/problem will the calendar issue be for American unity? Do you think we would settle upon old or new as a united Church in the Americas?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how big of an issue/problem will the calendar issue be for American unity? Do you think we would settle upon old or new as a united Church in the Americas?</p>
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