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	<title>Comments for OrthodoxHistory.org</title>
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	<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org</link>
	<description>The Society for Orthodox Christian History in the Americas</description>
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		<title>Comment on Churches on wheels: then and now by qwa</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/05/03/churches-on-wheels-then-and-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2372</link>
		<dc:creator>qwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5779#comment-2372</guid>
		<description>The Russian army has various different church trucks and church tents; there has even been talk of inflatable churches for use by airborne forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Russian army has various different church trucks and church tents; there has even been talk of inflatable churches for use by airborne forces.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Virginian Apostle: The First Orthodox Catechism in the Americas? by Isa Almisry</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/09/13/a-virginian-apostle-the-first-orthodox-catechism-in-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-2281</link>
		<dc:creator>Isa Almisry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 03:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4772#comment-2281</guid>
		<description>Since the post on Fr. Hatherly has closed comments, I might as well put this here.  It is the publication of the Divine Liturgy by him, somewhat officially, from his introduction, by both the EP (Fr. Hatherly&#039;s jurisdiction) and the Holy Governing Synod of Russia (per the Ober-Prokurator).
http://books.google.com/books?id=6e8CAAAAQAAJ&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=gbs_ge_summary_r&amp;cad=0#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false
What is interesting is that it is printed at &quot;Bristol: Printing Office of the GreeK Church,&quot; &quot;with the sanction and blessing of his late All-Holiness Joakeim II&quot; after the Anglicans got the Phanar to tell Fr. Hatherly to cease and desist, and after his failed mission in New York.  The canon was translated by the Greek Consul at Syra, which see, IIRC, crops up a number of times in the history of American Orthodoxy and its Greek connections.  It is also clear that the intent of the translation was for Orthodox believers to worship in English, including converts its seems (still a touchy subject in England with the Anglicans).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the post on Fr. Hatherly has closed comments, I might as well put this here.  It is the publication of the Divine Liturgy by him, somewhat officially, from his introduction, by both the EP (Fr. Hatherly&#8217;s jurisdiction) and the Holy Governing Synod of Russia (per the Ober-Prokurator).<br />
<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=6e8CAAAAQAAJ&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;source=gbs_ge_summary_r&#038;cad=0#v=onepage&#038;q&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=6e8CAAAAQAAJ&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;source=gbs_ge_summary_r&#038;cad=0#v=onepage&#038;q&#038;f=false</a><br />
What is interesting is that it is printed at &#8220;Bristol: Printing Office of the GreeK Church,&#8221; &#8220;with the sanction and blessing of his late All-Holiness Joakeim II&#8221; after the Anglicans got the Phanar to tell Fr. Hatherly to cease and desist, and after his failed mission in New York.  The canon was translated by the Greek Consul at Syra, which see, IIRC, crops up a number of times in the history of American Orthodoxy and its Greek connections.  It is also clear that the intent of the translation was for Orthodox believers to worship in English, including converts its seems (still a touchy subject in England with the Anglicans).</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Virginian Apostle: The First Orthodox Catechism in the Americas? by Isa Almisry</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/09/13/a-virginian-apostle-the-first-orthodox-catechism-in-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-2275</link>
		<dc:creator>Isa Almisry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 01:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4772#comment-2275</guid>
		<description>On the Confession itself, I came across this interesting bit by Neale, who had a lot to do with making Orthodox materials known in Great Britain:

Voices from the East Documents on the Present State and Working of the Oriental Church
By the Rev. J. M. Neale, M.A.
London: Joseph Masters, 1859.

&quot;Among the expositions of faith, which have appeared in the Orthodox Church in the East, some are common to all this Church; others are peculiar to the Russian Church.

These are the general symbols: 1. Two Confessions of the Orthodox faith, composed to serve as a guide to all members of the Eastern Church.

A. The first, which appeared at Kieff [i.e. Kiev]  in 1640, had for its object the preservation of the purity of Orthodoxy against the opinions of Lutherans and Calvinists, and still more against the doctrines of Roman Catholics, and the ci-devant Uniats. It is known by the name of The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Church of the East. It was examined in the first place by the Council of Kieff: then in 1643 by that of Jassy. [For some account of the Council of Jassy, the reader may consult my History of Alexandria, Vol. II., p. 560.--TRANSL.] It was then reviewed and approved by the four Eastern Patriarchs. [That is, Parthenius (II.) of Constantinople, Joannicius of Alexandria, Macarius of Antioch, Paisius of Jerusalem.--TRANSL.] &quot;We find,&quot; write they, &quot;that this book is in perfect accordance with the dogmas of the Church of CHRIST and with the sacred Canons; that it contains nothing contrary to the Church: and we declare, assembled in Synod, that every pious and orthodox Christian, who is a member of the Apostolic Church of the East, ought to read this book, and not to reject it. Nectarius, Patriarch of Jerusalem, expresses himself in a similar manner: &quot;This book contains, it is true briefly, but also clearly, the orthodox doctrine, as you may see by its title: it is a true and pure profession of faith, without the least mixture of the corruptions of other Communions.&quot; Finally, it was admitted by the whole Eastern Church, a fact attested by the Council of Jerusalem, held in 1672, under the presidence of Dositheus, Patriarch of Jerusalem. [Usually called, in England, the Council of Bethlehem.] It was again received by the Great Eastern Council of 1691. [No account, not even the briefest, of this Council has yet been published in English. It will be related at length in my History of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.--TRANSL.] It was approved and confirmed, for the Russian Church, by the Patriarch Joachim, in 1685, and the Patriarch Adrian in 1696. The latter went so far as to call the work inspired, but not in the strict sense of the word. Next it was received by the Holy Governing Synod: in 1837, by a decree of that assembly, 30,000 copies were published for the use of all the parishes in the Empire: in 1840, it confirmed a special ordinance of the Commission of Ecclesiastical Schools, which prescribed it as a work to be taught in the inferior section of seminaries. In 1845, it resolved that there should be every week a special class, when this book should be studied in detail; and that, before passing into the superior division, the pupils must go right through it again, as an introduction absolutely necessary to the study of theology. [This work, which, it should have been stated in the text, was the original composition of Peter Mogila, Metropolitan of Kieff, in opposition to the ravages of the Uniats in White Russia, has never been translated into English. I have a MS. translation of it, which any theological scholar wishing to study tbh subject should be very welcome to have lent him.--TRANSL.]&quot;
http://anglicanhistory.org/neale/voices1859/08.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Confession itself, I came across this interesting bit by Neale, who had a lot to do with making Orthodox materials known in Great Britain:</p>
<p>Voices from the East Documents on the Present State and Working of the Oriental Church<br />
By the Rev. J. M. Neale, M.A.<br />
London: Joseph Masters, 1859.</p>
<p>&#8220;Among the expositions of faith, which have appeared in the Orthodox Church in the East, some are common to all this Church; others are peculiar to the Russian Church.</p>
<p>These are the general symbols: 1. Two Confessions of the Orthodox faith, composed to serve as a guide to all members of the Eastern Church.</p>
<p>A. The first, which appeared at Kieff [i.e. Kiev]  in 1640, had for its object the preservation of the purity of Orthodoxy against the opinions of Lutherans and Calvinists, and still more against the doctrines of Roman Catholics, and the ci-devant Uniats. It is known by the name of The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Church of the East. It was examined in the first place by the Council of Kieff: then in 1643 by that of Jassy. [For some account of the Council of Jassy, the reader may consult my History of Alexandria, Vol. II., p. 560.--TRANSL.] It was then reviewed and approved by the four Eastern Patriarchs. [That is, Parthenius (II.) of Constantinople, Joannicius of Alexandria, Macarius of Antioch, Paisius of Jerusalem.--TRANSL.] &#8220;We find,&#8221; write they, &#8220;that this book is in perfect accordance with the dogmas of the Church of CHRIST and with the sacred Canons; that it contains nothing contrary to the Church: and we declare, assembled in Synod, that every pious and orthodox Christian, who is a member of the Apostolic Church of the East, ought to read this book, and not to reject it. Nectarius, Patriarch of Jerusalem, expresses himself in a similar manner: &#8220;This book contains, it is true briefly, but also clearly, the orthodox doctrine, as you may see by its title: it is a true and pure profession of faith, without the least mixture of the corruptions of other Communions.&#8221; Finally, it was admitted by the whole Eastern Church, a fact attested by the Council of Jerusalem, held in 1672, under the presidence of Dositheus, Patriarch of Jerusalem. [Usually called, in England, the Council of Bethlehem.] It was again received by the Great Eastern Council of 1691. [No account, not even the briefest, of this Council has yet been published in English. It will be related at length in my History of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.--TRANSL.] It was approved and confirmed, for the Russian Church, by the Patriarch Joachim, in 1685, and the Patriarch Adrian in 1696. The latter went so far as to call the work inspired, but not in the strict sense of the word. Next it was received by the Holy Governing Synod: in 1837, by a decree of that assembly, 30,000 copies were published for the use of all the parishes in the Empire: in 1840, it confirmed a special ordinance of the Commission of Ecclesiastical Schools, which prescribed it as a work to be taught in the inferior section of seminaries. In 1845, it resolved that there should be every week a special class, when this book should be studied in detail; and that, before passing into the superior division, the pupils must go right through it again, as an introduction absolutely necessary to the study of theology. [This work, which, it should have been stated in the text, was the original composition of Peter Mogila, Metropolitan of Kieff, in opposition to the ravages of the Uniats in White Russia, has never been translated into English. I have a MS. translation of it, which any theological scholar wishing to study tbh subject should be very welcome to have lent him.--TRANSL.]&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://anglicanhistory.org/neale/voices1859/08.html" rel="nofollow">http://anglicanhistory.org/neale/voices1859/08.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Memorials served for Colonel Philip Ludwell III – Tuesday March 14/27 by Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/29/two-memorials-served-for-colonel-philip-ludwell-iii-tuesday-march-1427/comment-page-1/#comment-2253</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 18:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5603#comment-2253</guid>
		<description>Yes, Ludwell has descendants. Nicholas has located and spoken with some of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ludwell has descendants. Nicholas has located and spoken with some of them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Two Memorials served for Colonel Philip Ludwell III – Tuesday March 14/27 by lolajl</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/29/two-memorials-served-for-colonel-philip-ludwell-iii-tuesday-march-1427/comment-page-1/#comment-2247</link>
		<dc:creator>lolajl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5603#comment-2247</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to see if there were any descendants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see if there were any descendants.</p>
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		<title>Comment on This week in American Orthodox history (February 13-19) by JTeusink</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/02/14/this-week-in-american-orthodox-history-february-13-19/comment-page-1/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator>JTeusink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5111#comment-2151</guid>
		<description>Archbishop Iakovos&#039; name change wasn&#039;t exactly that given that James and Iakovos are the same name :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Archbishop Iakovos&#8217; name change wasn&#8217;t exactly that given that James and Iakovos are the same name <img src='http://orthodoxhistory.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Third Greek Church of San Francisco by Fr. Oliver Herbel</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/02/the-third-greek-church-of-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-2147</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Oliver Herbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5190#comment-2147</guid>
		<description>Ah, thank you!  Well, I guess in Orthodoxy, if it isn&#039;t politics, it&#039;s money! :-D 

Thanks for filling me in on that.  Oh, as an aside, I like the picture.  Pretty neat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, thank you!  Well, I guess in Orthodoxy, if it isn&#8217;t politics, it&#8217;s money! <img src='http://orthodoxhistory.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Thanks for filling me in on that.  Oh, as an aside, I like the picture.  Pretty neat!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Third Greek Church of San Francisco by jtlucas1000</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/02/the-third-greek-church-of-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-2140</link>
		<dc:creator>jtlucas1000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 03:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5190#comment-2140</guid>
		<description>Dear Fr. Oliver, The fighting was not over political reasons.  There were two issues, 1) a dispute over parish council elections and 2) how money should be spent.

The instance stands out because it was the first major schism of the community and the property would later be an integral part of Greek community life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Fr. Oliver, The fighting was not over political reasons.  There were two issues, 1) a dispute over parish council elections and 2) how money should be spent.</p>
<p>The instance stands out because it was the first major schism of the community and the property would later be an integral part of Greek community life.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Transatlantic Transylvanian: The First Orthodox Priest in the Americas? by Russian-Iconographer</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/06/a-transatlantic-transylvanian-the-first-orthodox-priest-in-the-americas/comment-page-1/#comment-2076</link>
		<dc:creator>Russian-Iconographer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 02:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5220#comment-2076</guid>
		<description>Bravo and well done, Nicholas! I hate to use that awful phrase, but I&#039;m having trouble resisting at the moment, so... &quot;I told you so!&quot; I knew I read something about &quot;Fr. Samuel of the Greek Church&quot; long ago and it was so intriguing. I&#039;m glad you found something more substantial!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo and well done, Nicholas! I hate to use that awful phrase, but I&#8217;m having trouble resisting at the moment, so&#8230; &#8220;I told you so!&#8221; I knew I read something about &#8220;Fr. Samuel of the Greek Church&#8221; long ago and it was so intriguing. I&#8217;m glad you found something more substantial!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reviving the American Orthodox History podcast by Fr. Oliver Herbel</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/05/reviving-the-american-orthodox-history-podcast/comment-page-1/#comment-2075</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Oliver Herbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5242#comment-2075</guid>
		<description>Both are very good!  I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve restarted the podcasts.  Concerning the early Greek experience in New York, you might recall that Fr. John Erickson paralleled that with Chicago&#039;s division between those from Sparta and those from Arcadia.  I think that is a correct parallel.  I&#039;m not an expert on the Greeks in America and have only researched their history to the degree it has overlapped with my current areas of research, but I do believe there was sometimes tension between those from Asia Minor and those from the Kingdom of Greece.  I think it is related to Greeks looking back to friends and families from their home region.  I&#039;m thinking this likely played a part in the split.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both are very good!  I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve restarted the podcasts.  Concerning the early Greek experience in New York, you might recall that Fr. John Erickson paralleled that with Chicago&#8217;s division between those from Sparta and those from Arcadia.  I think that is a correct parallel.  I&#8217;m not an expert on the Greeks in America and have only researched their history to the degree it has overlapped with my current areas of research, but I do believe there was sometimes tension between those from Asia Minor and those from the Kingdom of Greece.  I think it is related to Greeks looking back to friends and families from their home region.  I&#8217;m thinking this likely played a part in the split.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Third Greek Church of San Francisco by Fr. Oliver Herbel</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/03/02/the-third-greek-church-of-san-francisco/comment-page-1/#comment-2043</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Oliver Herbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5190#comment-2043</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious.  Over what was the fighting?  Did it relate to the typical political reasons Greeks divided or is this an instance that stands out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious.  Over what was the fighting?  Did it relate to the typical political reasons Greeks divided or is this an instance that stands out?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wicked Wiki, Primary Sources, and SOCHA&#8217;s Ongoing Work by Fr. Oliver Herbel</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/02/21/wicked-wiki-primary-sources-and-sochas-ongoing-work/comment-page-1/#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Oliver Herbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5161#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>I do agree that Wikipedia is generally accurate.  No encyclopedia can be always up-to-date or have all the cutting edges facts and/or interpretations.  That is why I did say encyclopedias, and I do include wikipedia in that, are good places to start when researching something or just learning about something.

That said, I think it is important to notice the limitations and weaknesses of such a system.  Perhaps I am more sensitive to that because I teach and can tell you that most undergraduates in my classes would prefer to cite wikipedia and just move on.  I think something similar has happened sometimes in American Orhtodoxy--just cite all the other secondary sources.  

So, although I probably wasn&#039;t clear, that was one of my intended points--that encyclopedias, including wikipedia, are good starting points but must be seen as only starting points.

My second (intended) point is that although wikipedia cannot be a peer-reviewed journal, I do think it&#039;s failure to admit of citations from directly relevant primary sources and newly published secondary sources is a problem.  That is what struck me about Dr. Messner-Kruse--that he cited the actual court documents and then later work he published through a vetted, peer-reviewed system.  I do agree with you that there are crackpots out there and I&#039;m more than willing to grant you that they are plentiful.  I can see how one would view the current system as good, but I actually see what happened to Dr. Messner-Kruse as a limitation and just one more reason for one to remember that Wikipedia is a starting point, not an ending point.  

I also think for historical studies, some sort of comprehensive database of primary sources is better, but for me to make that statement, I admit I&#039;m assuming an already acquired basic knowledge and/or framework on the part of the reader.  So, I would want to clarify that I stress &quot;better&quot; not &quot;replacement for&quot; or something like that (in case I gave that impression).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree that Wikipedia is generally accurate.  No encyclopedia can be always up-to-date or have all the cutting edges facts and/or interpretations.  That is why I did say encyclopedias, and I do include wikipedia in that, are good places to start when researching something or just learning about something.</p>
<p>That said, I think it is important to notice the limitations and weaknesses of such a system.  Perhaps I am more sensitive to that because I teach and can tell you that most undergraduates in my classes would prefer to cite wikipedia and just move on.  I think something similar has happened sometimes in American Orhtodoxy&#8211;just cite all the other secondary sources.  </p>
<p>So, although I probably wasn&#8217;t clear, that was one of my intended points&#8211;that encyclopedias, including wikipedia, are good starting points but must be seen as only starting points.</p>
<p>My second (intended) point is that although wikipedia cannot be a peer-reviewed journal, I do think it&#8217;s failure to admit of citations from directly relevant primary sources and newly published secondary sources is a problem.  That is what struck me about Dr. Messner-Kruse&#8211;that he cited the actual court documents and then later work he published through a vetted, peer-reviewed system.  I do agree with you that there are crackpots out there and I&#8217;m more than willing to grant you that they are plentiful.  I can see how one would view the current system as good, but I actually see what happened to Dr. Messner-Kruse as a limitation and just one more reason for one to remember that Wikipedia is a starting point, not an ending point.  </p>
<p>I also think for historical studies, some sort of comprehensive database of primary sources is better, but for me to make that statement, I admit I&#8217;m assuming an already acquired basic knowledge and/or framework on the part of the reader.  So, I would want to clarify that I stress &#8220;better&#8221; not &#8220;replacement for&#8221; or something like that (in case I gave that impression).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wicked Wiki, Primary Sources, and SOCHA&#8217;s Ongoing Work by Fr. Andrew S. Damick</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/02/21/wicked-wiki-primary-sources-and-sochas-ongoing-work/comment-page-1/#comment-2019</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Andrew S. Damick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5161#comment-2019</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia in particular has explicit policies in place against original research, which are themselves the result of editorial consensus there.  Citations have to be from secondary source material, not from one&#039;s own original research into primary sources.  Why?  It&#039;s for the reasons you state regarding encyclopedias.  Encyclopedias are simply about consensus, even if that consensus tends to be wrong.

For every responsible researcher like Prof. Messer-Kruse, there are potentially hundreds of crackpot editors who have found &quot;the truth&quot; and are willing to enter into an all-out war over it.  Prof. Messer-Krause can display impressive credentials on his office wall, but such things are essentially impossible to verify in the semi-anonymous world of Wikipedia editing.  The Wikipedia editorial consensus has chosen to sacrifice the introduction of new original research for the sake of holding a much larger tide of craziness back behind the dikes of secondary source materials.

When Wikipedia policy is enforced, it&#039;s not Wikipedia who is enforcing it, but rather it&#039;s simply other editors who are following the policy consensus and editing articles accordingly.  The reason why the policies tend to stay in place is because there is a preponderance of dedicated editors who choose to honor them, not because there is a central governing body that enforces them.

So, while the site is indeed editable by anyone, it is also just as much re-editable by anyone, and it&#039;s that re-editing process that tends toward the restraint and conservatism reflected in the policy.

The more gregarious among such editors will often point out to disappointed original researchers that they should get their work published and then other editors can incorporate their findings into articles.

What&#039;s truly bizarre about all this is that Wikipedia is actually, on the whole, pretty accurate, even in comparison with printed encyclopedias.  It&#039;s sort of oddly magical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia in particular has explicit policies in place against original research, which are themselves the result of editorial consensus there.  Citations have to be from secondary source material, not from one&#8217;s own original research into primary sources.  Why?  It&#8217;s for the reasons you state regarding encyclopedias.  Encyclopedias are simply about consensus, even if that consensus tends to be wrong.</p>
<p>For every responsible researcher like Prof. Messer-Kruse, there are potentially hundreds of crackpot editors who have found &#8220;the truth&#8221; and are willing to enter into an all-out war over it.  Prof. Messer-Krause can display impressive credentials on his office wall, but such things are essentially impossible to verify in the semi-anonymous world of Wikipedia editing.  The Wikipedia editorial consensus has chosen to sacrifice the introduction of new original research for the sake of holding a much larger tide of craziness back behind the dikes of secondary source materials.</p>
<p>When Wikipedia policy is enforced, it&#8217;s not Wikipedia who is enforcing it, but rather it&#8217;s simply other editors who are following the policy consensus and editing articles accordingly.  The reason why the policies tend to stay in place is because there is a preponderance of dedicated editors who choose to honor them, not because there is a central governing body that enforces them.</p>
<p>So, while the site is indeed editable by anyone, it is also just as much re-editable by anyone, and it&#8217;s that re-editing process that tends toward the restraint and conservatism reflected in the policy.</p>
<p>The more gregarious among such editors will often point out to disappointed original researchers that they should get their work published and then other editors can incorporate their findings into articles.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s truly bizarre about all this is that Wikipedia is actually, on the whole, pretty accurate, even in comparison with printed encyclopedias.  It&#8217;s sort of oddly magical.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Orthodox Baptism in the home of John Quincy Adams &#8211; and much more besides by revdanielkt</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/24/an-orthodox-baptism-in-the-home-of-john-quincy-adams-and-much-more-besides/comment-page-1/#comment-1975</link>
		<dc:creator>revdanielkt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5026#comment-1975</guid>
		<description>Fascinating work Nicholas.  I&#039;m enjoying your theme of early American dignitaries and their connections to Eastern Europe, particularly Russia.  I recently visited Middleton Place, north of Charleston, SC, a plantation and estate.  One of its residents was Henry Middleton (the 2nd Henry there) who was ambassador to Russia 1820-1830.  Within the house museum on site there are several Russian paintings and other items.  Of particular interest was a silver broach with an icon of Theotokos and Child flanked by angels.  If nothing else, one continues to see the religious aspects of early American diplomats and their encounters with the Orthodox Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating work Nicholas.  I&#8217;m enjoying your theme of early American dignitaries and their connections to Eastern Europe, particularly Russia.  I recently visited Middleton Place, north of Charleston, SC, a plantation and estate.  One of its residents was Henry Middleton (the 2nd Henry there) who was ambassador to Russia 1820-1830.  Within the house museum on site there are several Russian paintings and other items.  Of particular interest was a silver broach with an icon of Theotokos and Child flanked by angels.  If nothing else, one continues to see the religious aspects of early American diplomats and their encounters with the Orthodox Church.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Toward an American Orthodox historical narrative by gsarraf</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/03/toward-an-american-orthodox-historical-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>gsarraf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=4988#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>I just read this post (and comments 1-6) and must say you all make some great points here. The work of your  society is very important. You bring to life some of the most important issues that impact us all. Through my research, I can say with confidence that Christos Yannaras also uses similar language when generally describing the life and thought of Orthodox Christians during the twentieth century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read this post (and comments 1-6) and must say you all make some great points here. The work of your  society is very important. You bring to life some of the most important issues that impact us all. Through my research, I can say with confidence that Christos Yannaras also uses similar language when generally describing the life and thought of Orthodox Christians during the twentieth century.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Orthodox Baptism in the home of John Quincy Adams &#8211; and much more besides by VovaHindrichs</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/24/an-orthodox-baptism-in-the-home-of-john-quincy-adams-and-much-more-besides/comment-page-1/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>VovaHindrichs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5026#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>Then again, there is still the apparent odd-ball in that none of the sponsors are, at least prima facie, Orthodox.  The fact that significant gifts were given and that Adams is usually a pretty astute observer gives me pause that there were in fact no Orthodox sponsors, and that there was nothing wrong with the child, i.e. there was no emergency justification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then again, there is still the apparent odd-ball in that none of the sponsors are, at least prima facie, Orthodox.  The fact that significant gifts were given and that Adams is usually a pretty astute observer gives me pause that there were in fact no Orthodox sponsors, and that there was nothing wrong with the child, i.e. there was no emergency justification.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Orthodox Baptism in the home of John Quincy Adams &#8211; and much more besides by VovaHindrichs</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/24/an-orthodox-baptism-in-the-home-of-john-quincy-adams-and-much-more-besides/comment-page-1/#comment-1890</link>
		<dc:creator>VovaHindrichs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5026#comment-1890</guid>
		<description>Sorry Nicholas, I must have missed the fact that the service was chanted in Slavonic, but that would be a giveaway. As far as the similarities, the Lutherans did not spit on the devil, but cursed him.  The triple dunk was the same.  We have to be careful about confusing what passes as Lutheran in the US with the continental variant. I was baptized German Lutheran, and the Russian church deemed it sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Nicholas, I must have missed the fact that the service was chanted in Slavonic, but that would be a giveaway. As far as the similarities, the Lutherans did not spit on the devil, but cursed him.  The triple dunk was the same.  We have to be careful about confusing what passes as Lutheran in the US with the continental variant. I was baptized German Lutheran, and the Russian church deemed it sufficient.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Orthodox Baptism in the home of John Quincy Adams &#8211; and much more besides by Nicholas Chapman</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/24/an-orthodox-baptism-in-the-home-of-john-quincy-adams-and-much-more-besides/comment-page-1/#comment-1888</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Chapman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5026#comment-1888</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the kind words. I don&#039;t really see any evidence in Adam&#039;s diary to suggest any kind of joint Orthodox/Lutheran baptism. He clearly states that the child was to be baptized &quot;according to the rites of the Greek church&quot; and his description of what took place is absolutely on the money for an Orthodox baptism, right down to spitting on the devil :)
I don&#039;t think I have ever been to a Lutheran baptism but believe that this practice, at least, is unique to Orthodoxy. Also the service was chanted in Slavonic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind words. I don&#8217;t really see any evidence in Adam&#8217;s diary to suggest any kind of joint Orthodox/Lutheran baptism. He clearly states that the child was to be baptized &#8220;according to the rites of the Greek church&#8221; and his description of what took place is absolutely on the money for an Orthodox baptism, right down to spitting on the devil <img src='http://orthodoxhistory.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I don&#8217;t think I have ever been to a Lutheran baptism but believe that this practice, at least, is unique to Orthodoxy. Also the service was chanted in Slavonic.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Early Orthodoxy in Galveston &amp; New Orleans by Fr. Oliver Herbel</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/26/early-orthodoxy-in-galveston-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-1887</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Oliver Herbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5036#comment-1887</guid>
		<description>Fair enough.  Yes, one can be significant in terms of the impact made and one can be significant in terms of &quot;exemplar,&quot; and I think, at this point at least, that Archimandrite Theoklitos fits the latter category.  At this point, barring something unseemly, I think he&#039;s downright inspiring!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.  Yes, one can be significant in terms of the impact made and one can be significant in terms of &#8220;exemplar,&#8221; and I think, at this point at least, that Archimandrite Theoklitos fits the latter category.  At this point, barring something unseemly, I think he&#8217;s downright inspiring!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Early Orthodoxy in Galveston &amp; New Orleans by Matthew Namee</title>
		<link>http://orthodoxhistory.org/2012/01/26/early-orthodoxy-in-galveston-new-orleans/comment-page-1/#comment-1886</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Namee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orthodoxhistory.org/?p=5036#comment-1886</guid>
		<description>Well, I did say that he &quot;may be&quot; the most interesting man. But the point, as you know, is that Triantafilides is a unique figure worthy of a great deal of attention today. If we define historical significance as being impact on the course of history, then Triantafilides isn&#039;t very high on the list of most significant American Orthodox figures. But I think (and I know you do too) that historical significance goes beyond mere &quot;impact.&quot; And I think (and I know you do too) that Triantafilides is a VERY significant figure.

Anyway, for my money, I&#039;ll take Triantafilides as the most interesting man. Granted, that&#039;s not really an important distinction, and it&#039;s entirely subjective. But the man was born in Greece, lived on Mount Athos, worked for the Greek king, tutored the last Russian tsar, and at retirement age, he moved to Galveston, TX (of all places) and served a multiethnic Orthodox parish with great success. Not sure who, in American Orthodox history, tops that :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I did say that he &#8220;may be&#8221; the most interesting man. But the point, as you know, is that Triantafilides is a unique figure worthy of a great deal of attention today. If we define historical significance as being impact on the course of history, then Triantafilides isn&#8217;t very high on the list of most significant American Orthodox figures. But I think (and I know you do too) that historical significance goes beyond mere &#8220;impact.&#8221; And I think (and I know you do too) that Triantafilides is a VERY significant figure.</p>
<p>Anyway, for my money, I&#8217;ll take Triantafilides as the most interesting man. Granted, that&#8217;s not really an important distinction, and it&#8217;s entirely subjective. But the man was born in Greece, lived on Mount Athos, worked for the Greek king, tutored the last Russian tsar, and at retirement age, he moved to Galveston, TX (of all places) and served a multiethnic Orthodox parish with great success. Not sure who, in American Orthodox history, tops that <img src='http://orthodoxhistory.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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